Curse

LifeInfusion · Apr 20, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

MOTIVE
================================================== =======
I think as it stands now casual players that quest are lacking people to do quest with. Most hardcore players finish quests within the first couple days a quest is out (SF and Titan Quests for example).

What people do instead of Questing
================================================== =======
You see all the farmers with their 1.4mil gold and FOW armor and 20mil exp and whatnot. BUT they DONT DO QUESTS and MISSIONS and just spam the chat with "LFG for 5man farming" or "Selling ___(item name and stats)__for (item price, current offer, and buyout)___". What this means is the people that do quests are shafted because it takes hours to group.

Hence, the number of people that get run through the game out of frustration and/or laziness.

Part I: District allocation by purpose (Questing & General Districts)
================================================== =======
What I propose is that people with a quest all are sent to the same district by default, which would not be district 1 or 2 and mandate a FULL group to leave into a explorable zone. For endgame quests it would help a ton. It would also bring some breathability to the PvE side of the game.

Any groups not FULL would have to be made in the General districts and those without quests would be sent to the general districts as well. The idea is consolidate all the quest-specific groups so that grouping is simpler.

Part II:Helper system
================================================== ======
Perhaps, if you have finished a quest and help people with that quest then you should be rewarded with something trivial, whether it be a a key (or multiple keys) for the area, or just half the exp normally gotten by the quest. That means nonrepeatable quests will have players doing them, whether to help or just to finish it.

This way, people doing quests after doing them have incentive (especially for higher areas). Those redoing lvl20-oriented quests will be able to get key(s)
for the area, promoting the gameplay and economy (since there will be more useful items flowing into the economy) at the same time.

Something has to promote doing the quests and missions instead of just running everywhere.

Part III: Bonus for not playing /vacationing
================================================== =======
Let's say I took a one week or one month break from Guild Wars because I had a lot of work to do. Now I need to catch up so I log on and go through the areas. Shouldn't there be bonus exp for the first...say 4 hours after coming back? Perhaps have a scale of 1 minute of +50% exp for every 24 hours not playing.

Just a suggestion for GW in the long run (i.e. chapter 4 or 5)

Undivine · Apr 20, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

While I completely agree with you about the problem, I'm not 100% on the solution.

Part I seems to complicate things a bit. On the one hand you have a district where you can see everyone who actually wants to quest. On the other hand, that district can be empty or close to empty, as I'm sure it would be in the War Camp from time to time. On the old system you might nab somebody who originally wanted to farm, but decided to have a little fun and quest with you instead.

The requirement to get a max party is also a bit arbitrary. I don't always want a full group. A full group is harder for our monks to take care of, and I find a smaller group is sometimes more efficient. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a clever build or a good smaller team. I just wish they would do quests.

Part II sounds like a good idea. I'd go one further and increase the quest rewards for the first-timers, because experience or a skill point is just bloody worthless to a lot of people, especially the older characters. Give me money, or items, or perhaps even a Signet of Capture for the higher-end quests.

Or better yet, use my suggestion from this thread.

It would improve Guild Wars a lot if quests were the main way of gathering loot.

I don't really have any comments on part III. Seems like a nice suggestion.

Trin Storm · Apr 20, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Well - I am for making LFG an easier process - however - Part I - I am not for mandating I am in a particular size group for anything. I know 2nd, 3rd time through etc - I have specifically done quests in smaller groups for more challenge/exp/loot.

Also - I don't think that would work because many places have multiple quests, and you get them after you arrive - so 1) how do you balance who goes where (players can select anyway) and 2) you can't figure you where to place them unitl after they are there by your system

Part II - No - it would lead to running and farming of quests. People who just want the helper bonus would rush groups through. If you are level appropriate you get exp and loot anyway from participating in the quests.

Part III - There should be no bonus xp for people that haven't played in a week or two. What purpose would this serve? This would cause you to level faster, but not progress through the game faster - it would also make a infrequent player high level than they should be. In short - a person should not be rewarded for not playing.

Undivine · Apr 20, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trin Storm

Part II - No - it would lead to running and farming of quests. People who just want the helper bonus would rush groups through. If you are level appropriate you get exp and loot anyway from participating in the quests.

It may lead to farming of quests, though mind you, quests can still be balanced to one another at any time by changing the rewards. As for running, that could happen if ANet isn't smart about it. If they leave the quest rewarder at a place where everyone can get him, then yes people may be able to run it.

Mind you, I think they've done some interesting this with the Sorrow's Furnace quests. You do things like protecting someone from a brutal wave of enemies, splitting the group to manage two tasks at once, protecting an insane dwarf who runs ahead, and fight Dijinnis who do massive damage to individuals, but less damage to groups.

If the quests were balanced well then people wouldn't really know which quest yeilds the best results for your time. In that case, anyone who wants to do a quest gets to do it.

gabrial heart · Apr 20, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

MOTIVE
================================================== =======
I think as it stands now casual players that quest are lacking people to do quest with. Most hardcore players finish quests within the first couple days a quest is out (SF and Titan Quests for example).

What people do instead of Questing
================================================== =======
You see all the farmers with their 1.4mil gold and FOW armor and 20mil exp and whatnot. BUT they DONT DO QUESTS and MISSIONS and just spam the chat with "LFG for 5man farming" or "Selling ___(item name and stats)__for (item price, current offer, and buyout)___". What this means is the people that do quests are shafted because it takes hours to group.

Hence, the number of people that get run through the game out of frustration and/or laziness.

Part I: District allocation by purpose (Questing & General Districts)
================================================== =======
What I propose is that people with a quest all are sent to the same district by default, which would not be district 1 or 2 and mandate a FULL group to leave into a explorable zone. For endgame quests it would help a ton. It would also bring some breathability to the PvE side of the game.

Any groups not FULL would have to be made in the General districts and those without quests would be sent to the general districts as well. The idea is consolidate all the quest-specific groups so that grouping is simpler.

Part II:Helper system
================================================== ======
Perhaps, if you have finished a quest and help people with that quest then you should be rewarded with something trivial, whether it be a a key (or multiple keys) for the area, or just half the exp normally gotten by the quest. That means nonrepeatable quests will have players doing them, whether to help or just to finish it.

This way, people doing quests after doing them have incentive (especially for higher areas). Those redoing lvl20-oriented quests will be able to get key(s)
for the area, promoting the gameplay and economy (since there will be more useful items flowing into the economy) at the same time.

Something has to promote doing the quests and missions instead of just running everywhere.

Part III: Bonus for not playing /vacationing
================================================== =======
Let's say I took a one week or one month break from Guild Wars because I had a lot of work to do. Now I need to catch up so I log on and go through the areas. Shouldn't there be bonus exp for the first...say 4 hours after coming back? Perhaps have a scale of 1 minute of +50% exp for every 24 hours not playing.

Just a suggestion for GW in the long run (i.e. chapter 4 or 5)

You're kidding right? You want a bonus for taking a vacation for GW??? And you want this in the form of exp? Go buy a scroll!! Buy a few even...

Alot of the requests posted on forums are jsut silly. ANET or anyone else in your life aren't going to correct stuff you can easily correct yourself...

I really can't understand the big problem with farmers anyway, I farm ectos and it aint some simple task on top of the drop rate being 3 or for per group for like an hour hour and a half in UW or TOMBS. I can see bot farming being a problem for the economy, since farming repeation is just boring. So ANET has taken care of alot of the bot problem already.

There are repeatable quests in factions... Grouping problems? Join an active guild with helpful members...

As far as grouping districts, lol, people now can't even obey the "trade chat" let alone not go into the busy grouping districts to spam there crap for sale. The only time I'm looking for stuff to buy is when i have the trade chat on, not sure why people selling there (honestly garbage stuff) can't keep it in the best chat that offers the most "buyers"...

"You can't fix stupid!"

sh4ft3d · Apr 20, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

What this means is the people that do quests are shafted because it takes hours to group.

HEY! You mentioned me!!! Jk. Kinda like the idea, but I also enjoy the challenge of farming a difficult area.

Minus Sign · Apr 20, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

The farmers in the areas you speak of are not questing with you for the exact reasons you state: they've already done it once already. More than likely, they've done it many times with full groups, helping guildies and friends through the game.

Really think baout what you're asking here Life Infusion. Remove the reason for people to play this game on a regular basis and replace it with junk rewards. Reward players who do not play this game regularly. Force PuGs or more firmly force Guilded people to play with each other instead of solo or with henchmen.

And most important: add selective districts to the game when we can't even get 1 lousy RP district.

None of this will solve the problems you claim to want fixed. It's just another farm nerf call.

Final note: casual players that quest always have someone to quest with. You can do anything you want with henchmen.

shardfenix · Apr 20, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

What I propose is that people with a quest all are sent to the same district by default, which would not be district 1 or 2 and mandate a FULL group to leave into a explorable zone.

What makes you think people wont form a group of 5, then ask 3 additional people to come outside with them and leave?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Any groups not FULL would have to be made in the General districts and those without quests would be sent to the general districts as well. The idea is consolidate all the quest-specific groups so that grouping is simpler.

Why not just let players make their own districts named after a quest they want to do, and only have 1 copy of that quest district at a time? On the quest log there could be a button "Travel to district for this quest."

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Perhaps, if you have finished a quest and help people with that quest then you should be rewarded with something trivial, whether it be a a key (or multiple keys) for the area, or just half the exp normally gotten by the quest. That means nonrepeatable quests will have players doing them, whether to help or just to finish it.

Although I agree with you, there is no way to code that into the game. This also goes against your last idea of having quest-specific versus general districts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Let's say I took a one week or one month break from Guild Wars because I had a lot of work to do. Now I need to catch up so I log on and go through the areas. Shouldn't there be bonus exp for the first...say 4 hours after coming back? Perhaps have a scale of 1 minute of +50% exp for every 24 hours not playing.

The reward you get for not playing GW too much.. i believe that's called a paycheck

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 21, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Seems like people are getting the impression he wants all districts to require a full party but that is not the case. District 1 and 2 or however many will be normal. The party requirement on the quest districts just seems like something to deter farmers from entering those districts looking for a farming group. This way those that actually want to quest can find it easier to find others that want the same. Sure it may become empty at time but then atleast if someone goes there looking to party up and quest then they know what their odds are at finding a group unlike now where everyone seems to want to farm and you can't really tell who (if anyone) is there to quest. Sure it'll be those that say so in the chat but there are quite a few that go there and just look for those that already have a group started then there are those that don't go there at all because it is flooded with farmers. So /signed but I think what your asking is the same as an RP district. After all those that role play their character will do all the missions and quest in accordance with the story of the game and not just go out and kill the same set of enemies over and over.

For the gaining of xp while not playing. Nope /notsigned. That there is a hand out.

The reward for those that have nothing left to do except help others would be nice change. Of course the reward would have to be of something valuable to someone who is already at max level with almost all the skills capped (so more than likely gold). Of course the amount you get would depend on the quest/mission so the ones back in ascalon wouldn't give you much where the ones in the southern shiverpeaks and beyond would yeild more. As for people that would run it then just add npc's in the quests and missions where every character in the party must speak with them and place them in areas that would require the party to fight there. This doesn't really work in the ascalon quests since the high level characters could carry the team on his or her back killing everything but that's why the reward for those wouldn't be that great.

Kool Pajamas · Apr 21, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

I'd like to see a questing district. So people that want to quest arent mixed in with all the farmers and afkers and can find a group more quickly in certain areas.

Banin Galori · Apr 21, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

It may lead to farming of quests, though mind you, quests can still be balanced to one another at any time by changing the rewards. As for running, that could happen if ANet isn't smart about it. If they leave the quest rewarder at a place where everyone can get him, then yes people may be able to run it.

Mind you, I think they've done some interesting this with the Sorrow's Furnace quests. You do things like protecting someone from a brutal wave of enemies, splitting the group to manage two tasks at once, protecting an insane dwarf who runs ahead, and fight Dijinnis who do massive damage to individuals, but less damage to groups.

If the quests were balanced well then people wouldn't really know which quest yeilds the best results for your time. In that case, anyone who wants to do a quest gets to do it.

I agree, rewarding people for helping others do quests is a good idea, but it does need to be balanced so it discourages running. I was thinking of something that gives you greatly increased exp gain or higher drops per kill, but I don't see any way to implement this for the helper only. Then again, it doesn't really work for quests that don't involve lots of killing either.

When you speak of quests right now, I'm thinking of missions, as they are easy to keep track of. I suppose it would not be that difficult to track whether a person who has done quest A is helping another person do quest A...

Anyway. The point of this thread isn't to nerf farming, like some might suggest. It's to provide encouragement and incentive to play the story and help others, and in general promote a better atmosphere.

quickmonty · Apr 21, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banin Galori

Anyway. The point of this thread isn't to nerf farming, like some might suggest. It's to provide encouragement and incentive to play the story and help others, and in general promote a better atmosphere.

Title of thread: "More incentive to play normally and not run/farm "

What is "normal"? Who decides?

"... and not run/farm" True .... doesn't say nerf, but might lead one to think that way.

Do we really need incentives to encourage people to help others? I enjoy doing it because ..... I like to help others. Sometimes I even get a decent drop or two.

(Trying to be civil here, but trying to get my point across)

Dougal Kronik · Apr 21, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

I think it would be a good idea with the district names for specific quests that people want to finish. But what if someone wants to do a quest by leaving from a different town than the one it is offered in - like Vilainy of Galrath.

The party limits have to be scrapped. I've done some quests - the first time - solo or with 1 or 2 henchmen. Don't 'force' me to take or join a full party which gives me less gold and less drops.

I think the problem with a lot of group forming is that the party wants a specific party build. Monks, Warriors, and Necromancer never seem to have a problem getting into parties. My Ranger only started getting welcomed into PUGs after the Crystal Desert.

I think they coiuld have a board in each outpost where you could look up current players that are looking for parties for certain quests. For example: Some Elementalist in Piken is looking for a party to do Althea's Ashes. Posts his Name and district he is in at Piken Square. Some bored Monk wants to help someone - checks the board in Drok's, clicks on the tab for Ascalon and sees this:

Ascalon Areas
>Ascalon City

>Fort Ranik

>Frontier Gate

^Piken Square (2 Looking)

Althea's Ashes

<Elementalist Name> D2

<Ranger Name> D3

Expandable/Collapsable tabs like the quest log.

Maria The Princess · Apr 21, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

well... alot of farms are actually quests... so i would leave farmers and questers in same district, but i would defenetly make selling on global chat a bannable offence, and would create as district for traders in evry town. cant read the LFG spams cuz people are just selling SO MUCH JUNK!!!!

SpeedyKQ · Apr 21, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

In areas with repeatable quests, they should crank the drops way down and crank the quest rewards way up.

Make it so questing pays as well per hour as farming does. Why shouldn't it?

Linksys · Apr 21, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Maybe it would be a good idea if they raised the level limit to 25 about a year after Factions is out. That would definitely provide more incentive. And more quests and tougher bosses. I'm sure they can add quests and we just download them when we play, right?

Trin Storm · Apr 21, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Raising the level will do nothing but unbalance the game. Getting levels is not what the game revolves around

-LiamB · Apr 21, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trin Storm

Raising the level will do nothing but unbalance the game. Getting levels is not what the game revolves around

So True. Many a time have ANet and others related to GW said: 'Once you are level 20, you are fully prepared and experienced enough so therefore further leveling is not neccercery. GW is not based around levels, but based around teamwork.'

My only criticism of that quote is that more and more people are getting runned to The Desert, in order to get that 50,000 exp so they can lvl up easily and get to lvl 20 without hardly doing any work. If you refer back to what I said previously: ( ''once you are level 20, you are fully prepared and experienced' ) you will see what I criticise is that runners ARE'NT fully prepared and expeirienced. :F

-LiamB

mariano · Apr 21, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

In my view farming is needed... at least, I have needed to farm to get the green items. I needed the greens for my mesmer and my monk which are PvP's PvE rised characters.

I would not complain about people farming... but, I would agree with the trick of the gear/book/keg/... etcetera being removed.

Nevertheless, even without the trick farmers would follow wishing certain team builds and not other, as it happens with people in PvP, and may be in cooperative missions too.

Whether there are too few people for playing missions, I think, it would not change if farming were nerfed. It is rather that there are few people, or may be that the people which have this common interest have it hard to find each other. So I rather like to suggest that all the guilds thing were improved, with means to find a suitable guild where to find other people with the same ideas. Things like i) a social channel to look for guild or to look for members, ii) a feature to request join a guild, iii) more easiness to change from a guild to another, like being able to join a guild without having had first to leave another, and iv) more ingame features to know about guilds characteristics and last v)more features for a guild's management.

quickmonty · Apr 21, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariano

In my view farming is needed... at least, I have needed to farm to get the green items. I needed the greens for my mesmer and my monk which are PvP's PvE rised characters.

I would not complain about people farming... but, I would agree with the trick of the gear/book/keg/... etcetera being removed.

Nevertheless, even without the trick farmers would follow wishing certain team builds and not other, as it happens with people in PvP, and may be in cooperative missions too.

Whether there are too few people for playing missions, I think, it would not change if farming were nerfed. It is rather that there are few people, or may be that the people which have this common interest have it hard to find each other. So I rather like to suggest that all the guilds thing were improved, with means to find a suitable guild where to find other people with the same ideas. Things like i) a social channel to look for guild or to look for members, ii) a feature to request join a guild, iii) more easiness to change from a guild to another, like being able to join a guild without having had first to leave another, and iv) more ingame features to know about guilds characteristics and last v)more features for a guild's management.

The part that I put in bold deserves to be in a seperate thread and is off topic in this one. There are some worthwhile suggestions here, but I strongly disagree with iii) more easiness to change from a guild to another, like being able to join a guild without having had first to leave another, It is too easy now to guild hop, and I would rather see a penalty for leaving a guild.